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lxcw
Midshipman

Australia
5 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2006 :  01:18:14  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Why somethings that look so good are in fact so SINISTER !!!

The High Cost of Faith by Jennifer Sexton
As crowds - and their cash - flood into Hillsong Church, former members tell Jennifer Sexton about the heavy price they paid for leaving the flock.
Whoa! I wanna know you, I wanna know you today.” With that catchy lyric, the lead singer rips into a punky-pop riff on his electric guitar as the band and side-stage choir spring to life. Over a sea of raised arms, five cameras capture the action as the audience, in time with the lanky, tousle-haired lead singer, belts out a thundering chorus: “You’re the best thing that has happened to me.”
No, this isn’t MTV live. It’s Hillsong Church, part religious service, part rock concert, part multi-media conglomerate. Every weekend at Hillsong churches in Sydney 19,000 people sing, clap and jump through a two-hour tribute to a God who rocks. As traditional religious congregations shrink, Hillsong attendance expanded more than 13 per cent in 2004.
There are no images of Jesus being tortured on the cross at Hillsong headquarters in Sydney’s Baulkham Hills, no vaulted ceilings. The audience sits not on wooden pews but on 3500 cushioned theatre seats. Under each one is an envelope and credit card form for believers to donate their pre-tax 10 per cent salary tithe. Ushers flood the aisles and pass black buckets down each row. The buckets have holes in the bottom, presumably to discourage parish-ioners from giving coins. And the rivers of cash keep flowing: donations and salary tithes to Hillsong were $15.3 million in 2004; merchandise, CDs, books and DVDs, returned a further $6.93 million, while total church revenue has now passed the $50 million mark - all tax-free thanks to Hillsong’s charitable status. And then there are the donations - it’s anybody’s guess how much - from the owners of the $40 million Gloria Jean’s coffee empire, Nabi Saleh and Peter Irvine, who are both senior members of Hillsong, the former as treasurer. The message of Hillsong’s prosperity gospel is: the richer you are, the more you can help others.
But along with the expanding congregation and profit margins have come the ugly rumours that won’t go away - of underhanded treatment of disaffected church members, of attempts to silence critics, of profiteering from the faithful. Only last month, the Labor Mayor of Blacktown in Sydney’s west, Leo Kelly, accused Hillsong of attempting to pressure him, via an ALP state official, to dampen his criticism of their use of public funds.
Hillsong’s main benevolent arm, Hillsong Emerge Ltd, has been accused in federal and NSW parliament of misappropriating commonwealth grants worth millions of dollars. And a former member, Robert John Orehek, was charged with fraud after allegedly fleecing believers of up to $20 million, which he sank into failed and fraudulent property investments.
THE KING OF HILLSONG EVANGELISM, Brian Houston, bounds onto the stage, clad in a dapper suit. “The faithful are in church tonight,” he declares, surveying the auditorium. “Awesome!” The background music fades away and the house lights brighten. People reach into their bags for Bibles and notebooks. Houston savours a silent pause. He’s been thinking about the seven deadly sins. “What would be my deadly sins, destructive in the lives of people?” Avarice, gluttony and wrath are apparently old hat. Houston instead says the sins are negativity, regret, complacency. Just a few weeks later, Hillsong’s formidable marketing arm has swung into action, releasing a four-CD set of Houston’s teaching on the sins that undermine potential in people, retailing for $35 in the church shop.
Houston has become the most influential pastor in the Pentecostal movement, and is a household name to born-again Australians. He also has political pulling power: Prime Minister John Howard, Treasurer Peter Costello and former NSW premier Bob Carr have all addressed the Hillsong congregation in recent years. In the last federal election, Hillsong member Liberal Louise Markus narrowly snatched from Labor the seat of Greenway, next to Hillsong’s Baulkham Hills church.
After the service - there are 30 every week in the two main Sydney venues, Baulkham Hills and Waterloo - people pour into the Hillsong shop. Half of the back display is devoted to the CDs and books by Houston and his perky wife of 28 years, Bobbie. Their bright white teeth and perfect hair seem to shine down from dozens of book and CD covers. In Bobbie’s CD set She Loves and Values her Sexuality she proclaims, “You might be happy with your weight but is your husband happy with your weight? … How are you going to do anything that might surprise your man when you need a hydraulic crane just to turn over in bed?” Boob jobs and face lifts get the thumbs up, as do good sex and a husband who says sorry with an impromptu spending spree at the jewellers. It’s a feel-good message, and when it doesn’t feel good, money makes it better.
GEOFF BULLOCK KNOWS ALL about Hillsong’s brand power and merchandising. He helped build it, even coming up with the name Hillsong more than 17 years ago. He launched the church on the international Christian music scene when he wrote most of the original songs, such as Power of Your Love, Refresh My Heart and Have Faith in God. For the church’s first decade he was Brian Houston’s best friend. For eight years, until a messy split in 1995, he ran the music department, nerve centre of “the brand”. Although his songs are now rarely played at Hillsong, they are popular on the international Christian music scene and Bullock lives off composition royalties paid through APRA (the Australasian Performing Rights Association).
When I meet Bullock at a sunny, beachside terrace cafe he is edgy and constantly apologises - for knocking the table as he crosses his legs, for being unable to eat much of his salad. A short, tidy man with intense blue eyes, he is approaching his 50th birthday. He hasn’t slept much in anticipation of revealing the backstage story behind the “miles of smiles” at Hillsong. “It was very nice being at the top of the tree but it just … ” He pauses, swallows. “This is going to sound dramatic. They stole my soul.”
Bullock’s moment of religious revelation struck in 1978 at Sydney’s Koala Motor Inn, where Houston’s father, Frank, was preaching. Bullock was 23 and had been touring the east coast in a rock’n'roll band, smoking dope and reading Carlos Castaneda’s stories of magic and sorcery. “It was wild,” he recalls of that November night. They sang hymns to a funked-up polka tune played with live piano, drums and bass. In the latest fashion blue safari suit, at the centre of the throng was the bespectacled 56-year-old preacher, Frank Houston, who declared that he used to smoke cigarettes before Jesus saved him. “People were trying to put cigarettes in his mouth,” says Bullock. “He lay down and he spat them out. It was a show of great confidence and charisma.”
Bullock was a needy, naive Sydney North Shore lad, schooled at the Presbyterian Knox Grammar. He believed in a higher being and was willing to try anything to reach Him, including cannabis. “I was absolutely ready for brainwashing. I was absolutely ripe for ‘love bombing’.” So, just two hours after walking into his first evangelical experience, Bullock answered God’s call, and his 21-year-old Anglican girlfriend from Lithgow in country NSW, Janine, followed. Individually, in back rooms, they were counselled. They had been born again and were now committed to Jesus. Satan would fight to get them back, they were warned. “I went in with a confident world view and I came out quite rattled. My whole belief structure had been turned on its head.”
He said goodbye to his rock’n'roll band, Arnhem, and to smoking, drinking and playing the occasional gig in topless bars in Sydney. A church leader came to his house and threw out his extensive collection of music - Joni Mitchell, Pink Floyd, The Beatles. “I had this wonderful group of friends, a great lifestyle, going listening to bands. All of that was viewed as being ‘of the devil’ … I didn’t lose some friends, I lost all my friends.”
Five years later, when 29-year-old Brian Houston set up his own church, Hills Christian Life Centre, in the newly suburban northern hills of outer Sydney, Bullock was a founding member. Young Houston was inspired by Tony Packard, who established a high–profile Holden car dealership in the area at Baulkham Hills with the catchcry “Let me do it right for you”.
Bullock was among the 70 believers at Pastor Brian Houston’s first service on Sunday, August 14, 1983, at Baulkham Hills Public School. From here a Pentecostal phenomenon called Hillsong was born. Bullock sang, played piano and was music frontman on stage for at least three services every Sunday. He recorded the church’s first six albums, three of which went gold, one platinum. He also ran the Bible college curriculum. For this he earned no more than $45,000 a year from the church and gave back a pre-tax tithe of 10 per cent, even when he couldn’t pay his growing family’s bills. Now he is being treated for post-traumatic stress disorder after being expunged from the church he helped build.
Bullock and Janine married in 1980 and had five children within a decade. At the height of his Christian stardom in the late 1980s to mid-1990s, Bullock toured the United States, Britain, Asia and New Zealand with an expanding repertoire of songs. For Sydney Sunday services they rose at 6am to set up the band and audio equipment and then rehearse ahead of morning, afternoon and evening church services. He was too busy to notice he was failing as a husband and father. “We had to put our parenting on hold,” he says.
Bullock began to feel like a real estate agent selling a manufactured ideal of God rather than one he really believed in. “I think Hillsong’s still got it, this feeling that God smiles a bit more when we’re singing our songs, and we’ve got good hairdressers, dentists, cosmetic surgeons. I came to think that the patron saint of Hillsong was Gianni Versace.”
Christmas Eve 1994 was the end for Bullock. He had rehearsed the choir and band to play the standard church repertoire for three Christmas services. Just hours before the first service, Houston discovered Bullock had not rehearsed traditional Christmas carols. “He just tore me to shreds and then left me to do three services,” Bullock says. Houston got his Christmas carols that night, but it finished his partnership with Bullock.
Once Bullock departed, a campaign of whispering about his morality and sexuality filtered throughout the church. When he broke up with Janine a few months later, his subsequent relationship with a married woman (whom he later married) was, he says, twisted to become the reason he had been forced out. At the same time, Houston preached about dark forces intent on undermining the church. “They ran a huge campaign to discredit me,” fumes Bullock.
Janine says she changed her phone number to stop friends from the church calling to tell her Bullock’s departure and their marriage break-up was against God’s will. She once hid in the wardrobe when a woman visited her house a second time. “I couldn’t bear her preaching at me again, telling me that this wasn’t of God.”
Janine still goes to Hillsong once a month, but says she can’t help but be cynical about the facade of spirituality compared with the lack of compassion and understanding she experienced. But, she adds, “there’s some beautiful Christian people who attend there”.
GEOFF BULLOCK ISN’T THE ONLY FOUNDING member of Hillsong to question its methods and ethics. For a decade until 1991, Stephen Grant was paid $100 a week to preach at Hillsong and was dean of the church’s Bible college. He admits that, as an eccentric, he was a strange fit for a fundamentalist church.
Still, Grant came from a wealthy family - he now runs a successful art gallery in Sydney’s Redfern - and had pledged (but never paid) $150,000 to the church’s building fund. He had a beautiful wife and was entertaining at the pulpit. He wore loud, colourful suits and sometimes a red leotard. When he blew on the congregation, the entire room of people would fall over.
But he realised his views diverged from Houston’s when they travelled together to the US in 1988. “In the US, I saw the wholesale commercialisation of born-again Christianity. I went, ‘Nah, truth is becoming a commodity here. It’s not a question of internal search, it’s a question of external commodification.’” But Houston liked what he saw and soon Hillsong’s fundraising became increasingly glitzy.
“I started to question what the bloody hell I was doing,” Grant, 46, reflects. “I was preaching all over the world. But I was getting really depressed.” He had lost both his parents and his marriage was under pressure. Grant subsequently discovered that, in the inner sanctum of the church, his wife was being encouraged to recognise that he did not belong.
His clinical depression was seen by the church as a sign of faltering faith. “I knew there was nothing wrong with my faith, and yet I was told: ‘You are not believing in Jesus enough.’” The Hillsong website backs up Grant’s claim. “Depression,” it declares, “is a supernatural spirit straight from the devil.”
When Grant broke up with his wife and left the church, like Bullock, he had to start life all over again, outside the Hillsong fortress. “People find a lot of healing in the church. I don’t have a problem with that. But … if you are kicked out, you are f—ed.”
The Christian message of the shepherd seeking lambs lost from the flock doesn’t apply at Hillsong, says Grant. “It was forbidden for me to be visited by the members of the church. Damn the lost lambs.” His recovery took five years.
The sentiment is echoed by theology student Penny Davis, who took years to rebuild her self-esteem after a shattering experience at Hillsong, which began in 1995 when she was just 20. Women who don’t fit Bobbie Houston’s mould at Hillsong, or those brave enough to challenge the male hierarchy, are swiftly brought into line, she says. With ambitions to become a pastor, Davis quickly realised she needed to change her wardrobe. “To get anywhere, you had to become a clone,” she quips. “I grew my hair, started wearing make-up and doing all the nice girly things.”
Life became very full, and it was all about church. She moved into a share house with four other young women from Hillsong, volunteered two days a week at church and did paid work with the Hillsong community youth centre three days a week, earning a weekly income of $600, less the 10 per cent salary tithe. “The pressure at Hills to be glamorous and have everything as well - it’s quite difficult on a low income.”
Just months after joining, she slept with a woman from the church - one who later confided about the liaison to a youth leader. Davis was immediately counselled that homosexuality was a sin. “I was just so vulnerable,” Davis says simply. She was assigned a mentor, who claimed she had successfully corrected her own “dysfunctional” sexuality. They spoke at least once a week, when Davis had to confess any lesbian fantasies. The mentor also read Davis’s diaries. After the “problem” persisted, she was put into an 18-week “ex-gay” program called Living Waters, then conducted at Hillsong. Once a week she attended the Living Waters group sessions, where she was told to focus on problems in her past which may have triggered her sexual “dysfunction”. “I was committed to getting these things fixed,” Davis says.
Three years of counselling, sessions with a psychiatrist and group therapies failed, however. Davis resorted to grabbing joyful glances at a video of Sydney’s Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras while her flatmates were out, she laughs. “I started to subconsciously realise that this was not going to change … the shame and guilt were eating me up inside.”
Davis decided her sexuality and spirituality could never be reconciled at Hillsong and made the momentous decision to leave. In response, her Hillsong friends sent a barrage of text messages quoting the Bible on the “sin” of homosexuality. She was kicked out of her house and then her friends froze her out, ignoring her emails and phone calls. “She’s gone, we have restructured, there’s no need to continue communicating with her” was the message sent to her Hillsong friends by church leaders, claims Davis.
Social worker Tanya Levin, who spent her teenage years at Hillsong, says that those who question church policy are first shouted down and later ostracised if they persist. Levin has been commissioned to write a book about growing up in an evangelical church. For research, Levin attended the annual Hillsong women’s conference Colour Your World last March and took offence when poor children in Africa were being marketed for sponsors in the audience on the basis of being cute. “They are actually for life, not just for Christmas,” Levin shouted before walking out of the auditorium.
When she wrote an email the next month to the Houstons asking to meet them on a regular basis in order to gather material for her book, she got this curt response from the general manager, George Aghajanian: “We are aware that during your attendance at our recent Colour Your World Women’s Conference you caused a significant disruption. It is for this reason that we ask you to refrain from attending any future Hillsong church services or events; including accessing Hillsong’s land and premises at any time.” Aghajanian closed by saying the church’s leadership and staff were unable to provide assistance for the book.
When Levin subsequently attended a Sunday evening service, a pastor asked to speak to her outside. When she attempted to get back in to retrieve her bag, two security guards blocked her path, picked her up by the elbows and escorted her off the premises.
Brian Houston refused numerous opportunities to comment for this story, except to say: “More than 19,000 people come to Hillsong Church every weekend and I know that the overwhelming majority of them would testify to a healthy experience for both themselves and their families. They would also speak of the constant positive impact they see on others who are being helped through Hillsong Church and its many community programs.”
There is no doubt that Hillsong - or, closer to the mark, its loyal parishioners - perform many good deeds. The church has a number of charitable arms, including Mercy Ministries, a residence for girls dealing with unplanned pregnancies and eating disorders established five years ago by Hillsong’s Darlene Zschech, the country’s most popular and successful Christian singer. Although recently mired in controversy, the church’s main benevolent arm, Hillsong Emerge, has helped people find jobs and recover from addictions. Hillsong attendees sponsor about 2600 children in Uganda, and generously gave $500,000 to victims of the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami.
But the criticism seems likely to persist as long as Hillsong makes $50 million in revenue, pays no tax and yet spends just $2.67 million on “welfare services”. It is not clear how much Mercy Ministries gets from Hillsong, but its total donations were just $304,840 in 2004. And Hillsong Emerge’s 2004 accounts show it got only $646,666 from the Hillsong Foundation Trust and about that again in government grants.
And Houston has been less than transparent about his own income. Until last year he had failed to declare that he and Bobbie had sold their own personal property holdings to a Hillsong-related entity of which he is a director, Leadership Ministries Incorporated. Bobbie sold a Bondi beachfront apartment on the same block as Jamie Packer’s pad to the not-for-profit LMI for $650,000 in February 2002. The couple also sold a waterfront property on the Hawkesbury River in October 2004 to LMI for $780,000, making $535,000 on their 1998 purchase price. They continue to use both these properties.
LMI is the tax-free entity Hillsong set up as a vehicle to pay the couple’s income. In breach of Office of Fair Trading reporting rules, no financial statements had been lodged since its inception in October 2001. Only after the property deals were uncovered by The Australian were the accounts filed in August last year. When the numbers came in they revealed the golden couple got a measly net income, after donations, of just $21,658 in the year to December 2002, $12,739 in 2003 and $69,041 in 2004.
If this is all there is, then how do the couple and two of their three children pull off a property buying spree worth $1.738 million over 12 months in exclusive beachside Bondi? On August 26, 2003, son Joel, who is a lead singer in the Hillsong band and earns song-writing royalties, bought a $676,000 apartment a few minutes’ walk from the LMI-owned apartment, paying $276,000 up front. That same day Brian and Bobbie paid $650,000 with a collateral mortgage for the apartment next door to Joel’s. Exactly a year later, son Ben borrowed just $90,000 to buy a $412,000 apartment a few streets from the other family holdings.
And questions persist about why it took 30 years for Brian Houston’s father, Frank, to be exposed over a complaint of sexual abuse of a boy in his homeland of New Zealand. Houston says his father was banned from preaching in 2000, when he confessed. But Frank continued to live on the Hillsong account, in church digs, until his death in November 2004.
Houston has hiring and firing rights over the board, and has appointed some influential and rich men to control the church’s empire (there are no women, he says, because one of the board members won’t allow it). The general manager of Hillsong - psychologist George Aghajanian - now oversees a $100 million property portfolio. And Hillsong has its sights on lucrative new markets in Europe - it opened a church in Paris last year and already has churches in London and Kiev.
Geoff Bullock says he can’t help but admire Houston. “He works hard and is gifted. He deserves to be a wealthy man.” But when told how little Houston is claiming as net income Bullock is incredulous - especially knowing the charismatic pastor’s fondness for Valentino suits and first-class plane tickets. And then there are the thousands of dollars in “love offerings” Houston regularly personally pockets for every talk he gives on the international Pentecostal speaking circuit. “Why not just be open about it?” Bullock asks.
As Bullock watches the church lurch from one controversy to the next, he has a sense of foreboding. He muses there is a valid expectation that the church should pour more money into helping others and less into promoting itself and amassing wealth. “In the end, it’s just sad,” he says, looking into his coffee cup. “It does look like it’s approaching a train wreck.”
Jennifer Sexton is a senior writer on The Australian.
Published by News Limited, 29 April 2006, by Jennifer Sexton.
This entry was posted on Thursday, May 4th, 2006 at 12:04 pm by dan and is filed under Hillsong. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Responses are currently closed, but you can trackback from your own site.

nick
Commander

Australia
240 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2006 :  22:18:54  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Yeah, hey check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj6G7MC85Rw

Nick.

www.waymanmitchell.com www.pottershouse.com
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forestvoice7
Midshipman

5 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2007 :  16:51:53  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Have come to give a witness and testimony of HIm touching us and experiencing Hillsong.

Lord Jesus Christ brought me into intercession for this church a while back and for the light to come on, as is all the light coming on for all His people, so things can be clearly seen and dealt with and released out of His body. Our experience with Hillsong...

When our house burnt down, He prompted me to ring them, did ended up giving a witness of what happened and Him moving etc...they immediately sent us some cds to start up our praise and worship collection, they also said they would stand with us in prayer. We had not donated to them or anything, they were prompted to do, and it was amazing to receive this, while churches closer to us turned their backs on us. We also did not ask for this, but was there to give them a message...and it was give praise where praise is due, honour where honour is due and thanks where thanks is due...

We also connected to this prayer ministery and this church was a part of what was being used to bring a miracle through. They did their part with us, from where they were and were part of a few others that came together around the world for an orphanage in Kenya. The pastor, wife and daughter who is 3 at the time, was about to get kicked out and they could not feed over 80 children plus street children, they were about to loose their home. As we were praying we were doing what He was getting us to do, and so a miracle happened right at the last moment, before they were to be kicked out. We also did not have the money to give to this ministery. What happened someone from somewhere in the usa reached out to this ministery and sent some funds. The kenya minsitery did not even know the person who sent it. Not only was it enough to pay the over due rent, but it was also enough to buy some food for the children. It was a miracle, the way it came together, and it was about Him touching hearts. Hillsong prayer team was a part of this. They also wanted to know the name of this ministery and where they were.

Also we have been using at different times their songs, and it is Him that gives us this and each song and wow we have a powerful anointed experience right where we are . Also recently on one of the CD's on a dvd included Darlene Zschech gives a powerful anointed word about true worship. What was beautiful it was the same scripture He gave to me was in there, and we asked Him to give it to them as well and He did. Not only did they heed they responded and flowed an anointed word out . We also see where they are going out to the community and doing His works, and people coming together and working together in the community to restore the ruined homes and lives. They recently worked with a bunch of other groups and worked on a local sydney school to get a new lease on life.

He has chosen this church and gave us a witness that the praise and worship section and prayer section are both His redemptive elders in these two areas. He gave to them 24 roses, 12 blood red, 12 white with the measure, he saves His people at the 11th hour along with saving song, saving grace and other part of the message which is for them... He hasn't called me into the other parts of the church, but those two areas. So we will put a song on here from them and u can see if it is from Him or not. This church is also in His process and will be what they are meant to be in each of His seasons. Before the pure can come, apostasy must be dealt with, and the ones with the pride of Moab will fall, and He will save all His pure and set them free.

We also see the problems, and show me a church that is one of the bigger ones like hillsong that does not have apostasy, sin, inquity, transgression and error in the midst of it. Also the problem with a lot of the churches and minsiteries in the world, is spiritual immaturity, people have not cleansed the inside of their cups and platters, that is they have not dealt with spiritual pride, vanity and greed, and because this has not be done...this is what is corrupting God's people, it is lady folly and satan and his fallen angels/spirits.

Hillsong is one of the churches He has chosen, and so if people have a go at this church, they are having a go at His chosen. It is about the fallen woman being redeemed, like Mary Magadaline.

Also the more people complain about His anointed the more He anoints them and releases them from the problems, sets them free. We are meant to be flowing His truth, but for what purpose is it to be done? If complaints are being lodged, it is not blessed and He deals with it, in His way and timing. These two minsiteries particularly have His heavenly covering....

Have we ever stepped foot in the doors of Hillsong, no. Do we live near them No. Have they ever asked me to pray for them...No. but He has asked me to.

we also see the problems with this church and have heard about hidden corruption,and so we pray that He leads this church away from this...instead of complaining we pray and do as required...instead of public discreditation we do spiritual warfare with what He gives to us to do, and we become part of His solution not His problem.

We also know that there is a communication problem in this church, the church is so big, like all other big churches, no one knows everyone that belongs to this church. And so the enemy can get in. They also have a stewardship as well...so we pray as He leads that He will touch their hearts and guide them through. It has not come to us for the pastors or any other ministery in Hillsong only those two ministeries.

Here is a Hillsong song church song and we also see their process in the praise and worship and where their focus is...and these line up with what He is doing in HIs people and we are experiencing this, but also these are confirming what He gives to us. We are meant to be coming out of the world, not going to different rock bands or topless bars, we're christians and His...and we live for Him and in Him and Him only.

By the way we also don't belong to the AOG...and we know there are huge problems in the AOG...and so we have gone to Him about this...we saw what one AOG church did to a sister in christ and their family, we were there to Help Him pick up the pieces. So the problems are really steeped into the AOG organisation...and we also have to remember the wolf in sheep's clothing is in the midst of His people in churches and minsiteries, and has been for a long time. Nor do we agree with prosperity teachings etc...and so this is what we pray about and do in Him. And the tables are turning over.

Jesus is (Hillsong)

Glory, Glory all around
As the universe resounds.
And we proclaim He is Lord.
Eternity Echoes the song,
Creation Joining in as one.
And we proclaim He is Lord.
Heavens cry, my heart sings,
Jesus is the Lord of all heaven and earth
Jesus is.
Glorious, The greatest of all,
Jesus is, Jesus is, forevermore
The King above all,
Jesus is, Jesus is.

Is this song a problem? There are other Hillsong songs that are strong in Him, and others that haven't been.. We pray that He keep on touching their praise and worship and only His anointed songs come through and find aplace that reach out to others.

this song also lines up with His prophetic word and what we have been joining in Him doing clearing, preparing work etc...for the light to come on people to finally see Lord Jesus Christ is God and there is no other, which means all His people He is touching in all His nations in all the world's religions He is touching and these strongholds are being broken. See... Ezekiel 36:23 and 38:23 is what He is doing and this came last August and it is about His Heavenly redemption He is flowing..and we see what was done last august is truly happening now,as He said it would...It is the time of the great invitation...Isaiah 51 and John 3:16 as well as His people becoming one in Him.

We also pray that people caught up into corruption, apostasy etc..that can not be changed, and set free from that, then we ask that they be clearly seen along with His pure and good and that He leads them out of the midst of His beautiful people and bring ones in to take their place that can not be corrupted...also this is significant for now...

For there must be heresies amoung you, that they which are approved may be made manifest amoung you. 1 Cor 19.

Please read Hosaea 2:12-6:3 focus verses 4:12 -19. This is one of the strongholds we are joining in Lord Jesus Christ in breaking strongholds.

His anointed do come with His protection...touch not my anointed do my prophets no harm, this is my body...and He has chosen Hillsong praise and worship and prayer minsitery there. If people still have a problem about this then please go to Him in prayer...and if this is still a problem, then please go to the Hillsong church and confront them with this, let it come out in the open, if they do not listen, then take others and then confront then. But go to them with this, so the truth can come in and people can repent and be saved. Rather than put it on to an online ministery where the Hillsong church have not been invited to give a response.

Forestvoice7







Edited by - forestvoice7 on 24 Jan 2007 16:55:02
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blessed7
Midshipman

Australia
4 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2007 :  12:49:53  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
it is a song towards God. we should sing praises to him so that it brings him joy. doesnt matter what words we sing as long as we sing to him. and priase his name. let what we sing be a sweet sweet sound in his ear. if its rock or not it shoudlnt matter we live in a really evil n dark world if this is going to reach other ppl who are living in darkness its a good thing.
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FLORYY
Midshipman

Romania
4 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2007 :  23:34:20  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
ARE U FROM POTTER'S HOUSE CHURCH?

FLORY
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lxcw
Midshipman

Australia
5 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2007 :  20:42:52  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Floryy - your post was the most recent so I'll reply to you first in the hope you visit this place again - if your question was directed to me of course n not to "blessed7 or forestvoice7" - no I'm not a member nor am I affiliated in any way with "Potter's House Church" or any other Church for that matter. Why do you ask ??

Your next blessed7 - I'm sorry but I seem to have missed something, you are not asking a question, you seem to be making a statement about a song - which one ?? Perhaps you are responding in some way to forestvoice7's post, though I'm not sure. However in response to "your statement" ~ 1. Yes WE should sing praise to Him, though I believe it DOES matter what words we use to praise His name !! ~ 2. Music is not necessary to sing, the style of music used to sing praise to our Lord, I believe to be of GREAT importance. 3. Do you want style of music to reach people, the words we use to reach people or the fact that you feel we live in a dark n evil world to reach people ?? ~ 4. I BELIEVE the world that God created and Bless us with by allowing us to reside here-in during our earthly life is a wonderful place, it is amass with beauty and I frequently take ENOUGH TIME to SEE it, to thank Him for it and most of all APPRECIATE it, it is NOT THE WORLD THAT IS DARK N EVIL BUT THE PEOPLE HERE-IN THE WORLD. ~ 5. I FEEL SORRY for those who view the world as you have express, I believe WE - ALL of us are DARK n EVIL that is why Christ Jesus DIED for US - He didn't die for the world but for US - you and me blessed7.
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lxcw
Midshipman

Australia
5 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2007 :  22:42:00  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I posted a copy of a publicized report, I don’t believe I have personally attacked nor accused anyone of anything, nor have I openly or otherwise attacked or accused Hillsong Church ~ have I ??
All I have said is “for the Love of God this has to stop” and “Why somethings that look so good are in fact so SINISTER !!!
.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I posted the document in a public forum ~ didn’t I ??
I certainly wrote the introductory statement as above as an ambiguous statement ~ isn’t that what generates feedback in a forum ??
Please correct me if I’m wrong !!
However you have openly defended Hillsong and accused AOG and guess what and I quote “Rather than put it on to an online ministery where the “ AOG “ church have not been invited to give a response…….Forestvoice7”.

Now getting back to your post overall, I wish to make a few statements, I trust I have your attention by now ~

I don’t make statements referring to myself as a “Born Again Christian” or a “Saved Soul” or “One Who Has Seen The Light” OR “Spirit Filled”, quite frankly I’m ashamed to make such statements these days.
It’s a very sad thing “forestvoice7”, that I feel ashamed to express my commitment to our Lord by using ANY of the above.
It is an even sadder thing that “THE CHURCH” or “RELIGION” or “CHRISTIANITY” is categorised with “Big Churches” as you put it ~ “Catholic, Protestant, Pentecostal, New Age, what ever, as ALL of them being RIDDLED with the same and to some extent worse sort of corruption as has been publicised about the Hillsong Church.

“forestvoice7” I LONG to praise My God, Our Lord, openly, unashamedly, publicly and have PEOPLE who have nothing regularly to do with any particular religion, denomination or sect, wanting to LISTEN to what my Lord has to say to them through me ~ but I can’t and they don’t !!!
Yes I have prayed over and over to the Lord to show me what is wrong with me ~ am I a coward in your eyes ~ no, I’m a fool, I’m corrupt even worse a hypocrite in the eyes of people I described in the paragraph above and so they walk away criticising, mocking and abusing ~ not me ~ no ~ My Beloved God, My Lord, My Savour ~ because of statements as I described above.

“forestvoice7” ~ FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THIS HAS TO STOP” ~ CORRUPTION, HYPOCRICY ~ associated with CHRISTIANITY !!!!

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